PB Just make sure it's recording. That recording. Sorry, just hit record and it's going around in a circle that's unusual. seen that before? Sorry, guys. That's okay. I think he's just having a think about whether he wants to record or not. Okay, great. Well, welcome back to the show costume designer, Ellen Mirage, Nick. How you doing today, Ellen? Unknown Speaker Doing just fine. PB Ellen, thanks for joining us again. Ken Stouffer, of course, from oceanographer on line two. How're you doing today again? I'm doing well. Great. Well, we covered quite a bit in the last episode, but we missed off some heavy hitters from your filmography Ellen, and we're gonna dive straight into cocktail. One of my favorites. And well, I guess my question to you, Ellen, about cocktail. She's shaking her head. Well, we've spoken to a couple of costume designers on the show before and Betsy Hyman and Marlene Stewart about working with Tom Cruise. And they both mentioned that he's fantastic. Always available for fittings, but never misses a trick always pays every bit of attention to every facet of the filmmaking. I just want to ask really what the experience was like working with Tom for you? Well, there Unknown Speaker was a very, there was a very young time, Tom had was only I think in his 20s. I don't think he was much older. He'd done a few films. I think that I worked with him as his on his first film, as in a, I think I some very, very, very, like one day part. I was an assistant on Endless Love. And he was one of the kids in the in the high school, I believe. But then many years later, come cocktail. I think he had done a few films, and this film had come up. And they were hoping for a success. The film was a little kind of messy. But Tom is the consummate professional, it didn't matter that he was 20 something years old, he was always very present very much honored. He's always a pleasure to be with and deal with. And he was he wasn't as skilled as he is now, of course, in the process of making a film and being part of the producing element of filmmaking. But he was he was the lead actor. And he was great. PB Well, I mean, so many of the printed shirts, we've got a friend who also runs another site who's addicted to Hawaiian shirts, tropical shirts, and, and they Unknown Speaker happen to be, I think, far better than any, I mean, in my opinion, far better than any Hawaiian shirts on the market then or now. And because I don't think that they were really like Hawaiian shirts, they were done by a company, which I forget, of course, the name right now, in New York who did magnificent shirts, it was not only in the print, but it was in the color of the fabric and the color of the shirt itself. That made it so special. And it just had a feeling of a more tropical atmosphere. PB Definitely, well, we got to go next on the list, Jacob's Ladder. Oh, yeah. Unknown Speaker You're flattered probably one of my favorite films that I've ever done. Again, and Adrian Lyne film, and it was a really interesting film, because when it was done, Adrian, who is a man who is a filmmaker who works in the moment, as opposed to making full plans of, of storyboards and shots, and how he's going to complete it, and what a visual effect would be, and it was at the very beginning of visual effects and, and visual effects that you would create after the film was done. And he was quite opposed to going down that road. And so there's a fellow that I always worked with, named Richard Dean, who was a brilliant makeup artist at that time, and always in his whole entire career, but he and I worked great collaborators. And what we did for him, Adrian was we created we hired an actor and created makeup effects in different kinds of entrapments, whether it be wondering the different kinds of outside elements and so on, to create an effect to show Adrian, what could be done practically, if not wanting to make a choice at later on, without later on about about a visual effect that he could create, you know, without, you know, in post production. Anyway, it was quite successful because his inspiration was Joel Joel Peter Witkin, his shaking man, and he everything had a kind of a blurred and shaky image. And in other words, it wasn't for Fear it or shock value, it was for distortion and strangeness more. And so that was it was quite a great exercise to help. Kind of lay a foundation for the film. Unknown Speaker Yeah, I just watched it last night for the first time. It's really interesting. Unknown Speaker That's a really interesting film. I think the unfortunate part of the film for me is as after it was done is that I wished the ending was different. That's, that's, I think that's where I think that would have been. That was the mark of is it interesting, or is it great? Yeah. Unknown Speaker It is a little grim. Yeah. Unknown Speaker And I think that after you go through that entire entire story, to wind up there is a little short sighted. Unknown Speaker I'm a little embarrassed how long it took me to figure out what was going on, given the title of this. I am curious, cuz it's set in like 1970s. Very grimy, New York, which is you live in? Is it? Is it different during a period piece for such a recent period of 90 like 15 years on as opposed to like when you're doing Chaplin, and you're 6070 years later? Unknown Speaker No, I don't think it's different. I think that may be the only difference really would be what's available to you. What do you wear? What, how and when can you actually secure? Or find different pieces that would be great to use in the film? That's, that's the only difference? I think you have to? And also, I mean, but then again, you have to think also about how is it going to be captured? How's it going to be shot? And is it going to create a feeling that is beyond what you're shooting, and, and so on. And I think that when we shot that film, I really don't think that New York was slick. It and we were in Brooklyn a lot of the time, and I don't really think that anything was trendy and cool, or any of what we know, today was in in our way, you know, so it actually all of it actually work pretty organically. Unknown Speaker Gotcha. And just to let me handle this transition, Adrian line, as you were saying, on the last call, very, there's a real honesty in the emotion of his characters. Nothing feels forced, there's obviously sexuality in this film and in unfaithful action, but it's never exploited, or anything like that. And so now let's jump to Paul Verhoeven and Basic Instinct. Kind of Unknown Speaker quite a different story now, isn't it? Yeah, we've PB got to switch gears, briefly truthful, Unknown Speaker and really, really vibrant director without a question of a doubt. And he knows exactly where he's going, what he's doing, and pretty much how he wants to get there without interference without interference. All of these directors work without interference because we didn't live in a time where anything was a committee, you know. So, in any event that was kind of thrilling by in hindsight, Paul is very, very clear on what his objective is. He relies on his visual interpreters for what it will appear what the story will appear like, but he's a very truthful very direct Very aggressive filmmaker. And I think you could find that in all of his work. You know whether I worked with him or not, you could find that from his very beginning of his European films, all through everything. He made it in the United States through what he is doing now. He's an artist, and I think that he has, he actually has that multi brain where it's not only art, but it's science and math and music on top of it. So he, he has a lot going for him when he interprets the material or how he wants to interpret the material. I find him quite stimulating to work with. Well, PB on that last call, Alan, I mistakenly assumed that basic instinct and fatal attraction and Wall Street were the beginnings of Cerruti, but was it Cerruti that came on board for basically, Unknown Speaker nope, did not know and then checked, I worked on PB Wow. Yeah, that's amazing. It's amazing that rumors just kind of spread like wildfire. Unknown Speaker Well, it's dead. I don't know where you found that rumor. But it's not been alive for many, many years. Well, no need to spread it any further. PB Yeah, let's not give it the oxygen of publicity. But we do you need to talk about this. Sorry, Ken, we've got to get this one in here. There it is. One of my favorite costumes of all time, because when I was watching this as a young boy, and this is Michael Douglas, turning up to this nightclub in Basic Instinct, we all assume as young men that we could get away with wearing ocean Phoenix sweaters and, and lieu the likes of Sharon Stone, into our arms. But perhaps just also pet talk about what it was like working on that film and dressing. Michael Douglas in particular at that point. Unknown Speaker Um, well, it was great to work on that film, it was really very, very clear what we had to do, and how we would go about doing it. All the actors were perfectly great, who has a plan ahead, and and we executed very much to what we had hoped to achieve. There was in that costume, particularly, and in her costume, that she wears in that same scene, what the choice for that costume was made for, for a reason. And that was that in their dance number, it had to be a kind of costume where, during their dance and that choreography, she was able to put slip her hand gracefully underneath his sweater at his neck. And he was able to put his hand through the back of her dress. And subsequently, it was designed to have very low back and so only for those two reasons that those two choices were the impetus to to make those choices I should say. That's fascinating. Unknown Speaker And I assume that Sharon, read your letter every month thanking you for that white dress. And that's it. Unknown Speaker Yes, absolutely made her famous. PB I hope she took it home and the coat as well. Unknown Speaker She didn't take it home. I had PB you had it. Amazing. Unknown Speaker But it's I don't know where it is right now. But it was it was at auction. And it went to the it went to somebody who donated quite a lot of money for charity. PB Well, moving on from the Basic Instinct dress. Well, actually, on that. I had a question, Ellen, back in those days, maybe through the 90s I think it was probably a little bit easier for actors and actresses to actually walk home with their clothes, especially if they were made for them and their fit. But nowadays, I don't think it's as easy as Unknown Speaker it was up to the producer. It didn't I mean, since I've been working it was always up to the producer. It was never up to the actor the actor couldn't just take what they wanted. No, it's not part of the process. I mean, the the clothes need to stay there till a film is in the first cut and what what might be needed and so on and you can't just willy nilly give stuff to actors who might not know where it is if you need it again. Unknown Speaker I'm going to jump ahead here real quick. I heard a story about Douglas on a perfect murder. But that is one of the most I like that wardrobe in that film is some of the most beautiful I've ever seen. Thank you refer back to that film all the time. The Tuxedo he's wearing right there in that shot. I heard that he did hold on to, and he was going to wear a few years later in his wedding to Catherine Zeta Jones. But she found out like a couple of days before and nixed the idea because of like a bad vibe. Like she didn't want to get murdered. Unknown Speaker I don't think that was the case. Unknown Speaker Maybe it just exaggerated this point, but it's such such beautiful work and those are those Antos shirts he's wearing. I know. Unknown Speaker Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, where the suits are. Dominic made the suits. That was my next question. Okay. Nobody made his whole wardrobe. And I think that his wardrobe in this film is undeniably so classic and beautiful. And Dominic just, he absolutely was an artist in a silhouette and creating proportion, perfectly for the actor that he was cutting for, and, and using the fabrication that it was made. And he was always his eye, and his talent supreme, really supreme. Yeah, it really comes Unknown Speaker down to PB I saw that once. And it was a great film. I remember loving it. But I was on a first date watching that. And the day didn't go and suddenly returned to the film, because I don't want to pick up that scab and remind myself of how bad the Unknown Speaker date was. But I would imagine it didn't go that well. PB loved the movie, though. I'd love to give it another video, I'm over it now. Fast forward a little and show you a clip that I pulled. And this is fun, too. Unknown Speaker With you, my heart goes left my feet do things that they should do. PB You know, you're lovely. You know what? You're so lovely. And no one else love that movie. And who knew he could dance like that? Right? Unknown Speaker He was he's quite great. He's quite great. I think that he could do anything that he wants to do if he's if his if he puts his mind to it, and he wants to do it. PB And I heard on again, for a scurrilous source that the wardrobe in that film, like he was wearing black a lot of the time went through that film and had enhanced wearing what Navy and so like there was kind of like contrast going on there between the characters, and then they come together towards the end and almost look like they're pairing in the same palette. Was that by design? Was that an accident? Unknown Speaker You know, it's I nothing is ever an accident. Nothing is an accident. I mean, when creating a contemporary film. I I happen to really love working in contemporary film, haven't done quite some time. But a lot of my career up to about, I guess 2012 ish 2013 stayed in contemporary film and contemporary film, I think it's the hardest film to design. There isn't anything that is really harder. There's a lot of opinions, there's a lot of judgments, there's a lot of talk. And there's a lot that goes into it. And it's not just about shopping. And it's not just about buying the nicest thing or even bespoken the best possible choice of anything, a lot of a lot of time and effort and concentration goes into every piece of clothing that that you used to create the character that's before you. And that's in the text. And when it came to Mel Gibson character, and Helen hunts character. It was about creating that, what that what it was about creating what Nancy wrote as far as who they were and what they were. And there were choices made that would be appropriate for each scene as it came out. And it was, I mean, towards the end as it was knitted together. There weren't things that were so stylized, that we said, okay, he's going to be in black. She's going to be in white. We're going to tell another story. No, no, no. I mean, it's it. Sometimes you do that. I mean, I always lay everything out before me and see how the film will run without a question. Jen. But in that case, you know, I'd have to try to really, really remember if certain things were done. Purposely what was done purposely was creating the character first and foremost, his character first and foremost, and creating her character first and foremost, because she had not played a leading lady of that stature for I don't know, if she ever did create, if she did ever play that kind of character, I worked with her once on Twister, but that's a different character, totally different character. And I think that she hadn't played kind of a glamorous character as a leading lady. Um, so that that required a different mindset and trying to actually present her the best in the best possible light. PB And I remember the time thinking, watching this film that Mel Gibson money's in the end, he's doing like the chivalrous thing trying to get other people's lives back on track, especially the people whose lives he you might have interfered with. He has a like a raincoat or like a trench coat. And I always thought was watching that. I was getting lots of Jimmy Stewart vibes. At the same time, I don't know if my mind is reaching and trying to connect the dots. Unknown Speaker Perfectly fine. You know, who knows? This is one thing that's true. Okay. There's lots, there are lots of images that kind of subliminally sit in, in your library in your in your being right. And things. Things get kind of there. There's subtle references that you don't even reference. You don't even use as a as a direct reference. But there are certain things that I pay quite a lot of attention to the choreography of scenes, and what has to happen, guys, it's never about the clothes from me, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. It's what's going on in that scene? What is the choreography? What what needs to be fluid? What needs to be the opposite? What actually is necessary to create the right tone at that moment, seamlessly? So that while watching the film, the audience just feels it. It's not put out, you know, it's not like, hit, they're not hit over the head with it. And those directors who do have quite a highest Stetic we usually relate quite well, Nancy's Nancy Meyers has an aesthetic that is bar none like one of the highest and the best. Her taste level is so high and will not accept anything less than great. PB Interesting. Well, yeah, I mean, like you said, I think guys, and maybe I'm just gonna be a bit broad here for a sec, guys, when they look at films and clothes, especially nowadays, they look to garner their own style template and go like, Well, Brian Gosling's wearing this jacket, where can I buy that jacket? And they they almost want to look for a brand. I mean, I know Ken and I require that's, Unknown Speaker it's very different now than it is was then. You know, I mean, although over the course of my career, I can't tell you how many times people have been in touch to say I want that where am I still get like questions of films like from 25 years ago, people really expect me to remember a pair of sunglasses, like anger nobody ever asked about that. said only you only you that being said, no, no, no hard feelings there. Said it's it's very, the movies are great communicator. There are many, many different levels, whether it is what you're saying how you're saying it, whether it's what it looks like, where it takes place, what the characters are wearing, what hits that site heist moment, and that's really the indication of did it work for I feel that is that how does the every person that sees the film, react to it? What did they take away and what did they identify best with? I want to be that guy. I want to be that girl. I don't want to have anything to do with it. I want to live in that kind of house. I love that color. You I want to be just like him just like that hero, just like the antihero, et cetera. And usually when that happens it is it really tells you a lot about the temperature of the Society of where we're at in the world. Unknown Speaker Right like Gordon Gekko, you realize that so? Unknown Speaker You think of Gordon Gekko you think of, in this day and age, euphoria you think of in this day, I didn't do euphoria. But I did. bridgerton. And bridgerton is like, it just hit a Zeitgeist that was bigger than anything that I've ever done. I mean, worldwide, right? And it was the biggest it well, it was probably the biggest production, but it hit a Zeitgeist that was Holy moly. I mean, it was from one end of the world to the other end of the world. Map. North, south east west doesn't matter where it was. It just they went, you know, the the audience went wild. So you kind of know what is going on. I think, in society, when things get that type of reaction, even if it's just Gordon Gekko, it just, it tells you what is going on. Yeah, society. PB I do want to touch upon Bridgeton I know you've been probably hammered to death with bridgerton questions, but we have to hit upon Behind the Candelabra before we before we get there. And I mean, can this was Steven Soderbergh film one of your favorites and Ireland, I know that you had access to the Liberace archives down at the estate there. I just wanted to ask, what was that moment like walking into the archives? And are they open to the public? Or is this literally just for the Liberace? Unknown Speaker No, we had special the museum had closed by the time when we were first starting. But Jerry Weintraub may rest in peace, was able to organize quite a bit with the foundation and seeing the clothes. Everything I mean, everything from soup to nuts in his archives was just beyond expectation. There's from pieces of clothing, who photographs to accessories, to pianos to cars, everything was just beyond your wildest imagination. It's really sad that the museum had to close I mean, it was, I think, a financial situation, but they still the foundation is still a very active Foundation. And it's housed in quite wonderful and very generous people that housed in Las Vegas and and they do scholarships for young children who are musically inclined and so on, so forth, they are very, very active in in moving Liberace cheese, Liberace spirit, and accomplishments, continually into the conversation that they shouldn't be lost. So wherever they can, they do. And subsequently the scholarship is, you know, a very, very wonderful thing because it goes to young kids, you know, who wants to become great artists. And so that was pretty amazing that it was it was quite daunting. It was inspiring, but it was daunting at the same time, because his clothes you would not believe the weight of his performance clothes. And not Michael's not Michael so that they were light as a feather. But Liberace closed, they would just they were pounds and pounds and pounds of crystal. And it was crazy. And he wear them for hours on end, it was absolutely nuts. But since the time of his stage clothes, the real stage clothes so the time that we made Behind the Candelabra, other technologies had come into play. So Michael, I don't think would have gotten through the film if he had a without weight. Or the making of the film, not saying that he's weak, but it just was. Oh my Lord. It was really really very, very tons and tons of crystal. Unknown Speaker I know that students had the idea of making Liberace film with Douglas going all the way back to like traffic. Yeah. And it took him obviously, you know, over a decade to get him in came on board at some point during the oceans movies. I'm just so you met should read through Michael Douglas. Is that the connection here? And Jerry Weintraub? Yeah. No. You're like you're sort of rings go to go to Lady. Unknown Speaker I've worked with him quite often. But what's great about Soderbergh is that I love working with Soderbergh, he is really, I think, my absolute favorite at this moment in time, but what's fabulous is that he trusts to, to do your work, and do your job. And he doesn't, you know, stand over your shoulder, and he trusts that once you understand what he's after, he allows you to execute and work with the actors and make sure everything is okay. Because once you go to work, he works so fast, that you have to be ready, everything has to be ready. And the only way to accomplish that is through that trust. So that when he picks up the camera to shoot at 730, in the morning, everyone is ready trust in and, and ready to the on, you know, be there for him and beat and to do their work. So it's a it's a that is a very choreographed way of working, and it's just so satisfying. I have to say, thanks. But the thing about Steven also is that sometimes I mean, I've I've not done some of the films that he's done in the recent time or whatever. And he thinks that he thinks that sometimes people should, it's kind of like music, okay, that maybe you don't always have a particular composer, do a particular film and so on. And so you don't take it personally. It's just it wasn't a right fit at that particular moment, you know, and you're happy when it is the right fit? Because it just helps you excel. Unknown Speaker Anything on the horizon between the Joker you and Steven? Unknown Speaker No, no, he's actually doing something now in New York, and I think it is an anthology series. Maybe it's not an anthology, maybe it's a limited series. In New York, I think a miss mystery kind of thing. I don't really know that much about it. And I'm going off to London to do something. PB Oh, very cool. Well, when you're in London, Alan, just to give us a call. We'll do coffee, and I'll take you. But in the meantime, getting back to cliffhanger. Mr. Stallone Parshat. And sorry, I'm joking. When I was watching Behind the Candelabra and listening to you do some interviews around the time, I think you mentioned there was a real shoestring budget. Yes. Very good. So how did you bring it to light? Unknown Speaker You know, I think back about now, and I think that the way we were able to do it was by asking a lot of favors. And and we're having a lot of very, very solid relationships that you could ask favors to. And that whether that was the tailor who did Michaels and and Matt's real clothing, whether it was anto, whether it was Mary Ellen fields, who ran and was the head of Bill arcade costumes. At that time it was her business bill had passed and left it's Mary Ellen and she she's one of the most brilliant I don't know what to call her because she does everything from cutting to shaping to forming to being a confidant to an assistant to everything like the other half of your brain to be able to sort things out and find ways in which to create costumes that were very specific of which ones needed to be created. For Michael and Matt, to find ways in which to do it that is efficient, and not excessive, but actually makes the point you know, and and in like the costume that you just showed the Neptune costume. The real Neptune costume is beyond your wildest dream. most magnificent work of art I think that you could ever say. So what we had to do with that is actually find The best way to express that costume. And we did by finding actually, I, as I remember it a horrendous piece of fabric that actually kind of imitated the sea, in which we could work the stones and other things into it to make it appear to be the Neptune costume that was quite famous and actually did sit in the museum as one of the costumes of the forefront of the museum for quite some time. And I'm certain still goes on exhibition. It's just beyond magnificent. And so what we had to do was really interpret that. And as we had to do with a bunch of his costumes, his stage costumes is find ways to give you the impression that it was that costume that he wore in real life. And Mary Ellen was a genius when it came to that. And what we did have quite a lot of fun with it. Like it actually there were two floors in the in her building. And we were able to create the coat, the fox coat, which actually we recreated in fake fur, but it was still so heavy, it could not be worn too long. You know, she just had such joy in making these things, that we were very fortunate to be able to have her as a member of our team as the leader of our team in creating all these costumes, because she just did she loved it. She had such joy. We had worked together over many different films many years. And this was a highlight. I have to say. Unknown Speaker Yeah, wow. And you know, obviously the stage costumes are amazing, but I still gravitated all the just the lounge suits, you know, Safari jackets, all that very specific garments that were tailored for the film. We were you working with Denis Kim. Unknown Speaker Kim was was our tailor, he did an amazing job. And what we found which you know, is kind of a fact I love in terms of this film and actually in the suiting world is this is that the things that worked for Behind the Candelabra when it came to suiting what were fabrics that were the cheapest, most horrible fabrics ever find. had probably the most polyester that you'd ever want running through this thread running through the fabric that you could ever ever cut. And we knew this by we there was one piece of fabric that was an Italian beautiful Italian piece of fabric that we did make one suit from Michael and and it didn't look good. I mean, it was a beautiful suit. But it was not under any circumstances. Liberace. PB Oh, I think I remember you saying that. Polyester has this weird way of looking great on screen. Unknown Speaker It does because it holds its shape. It is such an in the set. Also, when the film was set in the 70s. It was such a beautiful, specific shape. The silhouette was sculpted in a way that was I think, probably one of the best masculine shapes that we have actually lived through in terms of time. In terms of even modern times, they would still consider it modern time. Yes, people would say vintage but it is the silhouette, not of the 70s. But the silhouette on a man is probably the best that he could ever wear. PB Well, I think that's why my favorite bond is Roger Moore tangentially from the 70s. I always gravitate to that style. Tangentially also, I mean, I know that you've worked with a couple of bonds, Pierce Brosnan and Cinderella. Daniel Craig and Logan lucky. I guess my question around this is have you ever had a brushing with bond? Has anyone ever reached out to you and said Unknown Speaker yes, gratitude bond 26 Oh, really? Well, we'd love to have you desperate to do PB it. And are these now like, fittings wise when you have like the superstars are they like, Come out to me I'm in Maui. You can come and fit me or they like send me the measurements and I'll be there on set the next day. I mean People like, well, like the aforementioned Daniel Craig, how does it work? Or is it all just business as usual stuff? Yeah. Good? Unknown Speaker Well, listen, I won't say that that's the name of the game. But it depends who it is, when it is where you're working, how fast you have to have it done, there's always many, there is no formula to get it to being. There's no formula being a costume designer to designing costumes for film, working with actors, actresses of any level, there's no formula every single time you go to work. It's like you're opening a company. And there are rules that will be set forth for that particular, you know, engagement. And it's very, very nuanced, in terms of I mean, I really, really don't I don't think that there's ever two films, even in this cross section of work that ever actually thinking back about would ever be like. PB Interesting. Well, I know that one film that we have to look forward to, that perhaps I know you won't be able to speak about too much, is Oppenheimer, but maybe we can talk about the trousers or anything. But well, we're looking forward to anyway, because again, these are, we're looking forward to Unknown Speaker seeing I hope that we all enjoy it beyond. beyond what we enjoyed in terms of making it I hope that everybody else, I don't know what I can't predict what it will be in the end. Because Chris is such a genius. And also has become an AI he is really, at the top of the list of favorites. He's a genius director, writer, producer, and how he how he kind of sculpts knits together and, and works to, to make his vision come to fruition is beyond, beyond anybody that I've ever worked with. He's one in a million and extraordinarily special, extraordinarily special. And how he sees the story, after making it is that is a whole other art onto itself. And his brain is is a treasure is really a treasure. He is quite I mean, he is probably one of the most talented people I've ever worked with. PB Yeah, we've covered more. So Duncan, Unknown Speaker I'm just curious that the two of you connected? Unknown Speaker Well, it was just it was really it was kind of kooky because he, I think Jeffrey Kurland, who is a dear friend wasn't a vet. He's worked with him many times in the in the recent past, and Jeffrey wasn't available. To do Oppenheimer, it came up really very quickly. And, and needed to shoot pretty quickly. And I think that what happened was, it was, I think, that they, they committed to a period of time and so on, and then Chris wanted to meet new costume designers, and I was one of them. And that's how we met. Yeah, PB we've covered some of Jeffrey's work on the show before inception was a great one that we got requested for a lot and then 10 it again, so I mean, it's, it's no accident that his films are stylish, but the clothes are equally as important and as stylish as some of Unknown Speaker Chris is that He requires you to do the highest level of work, that you can possibly eke out, you know, and I, you have to understand his vision, be able to absolutely enable his vision, and that is every single piece of clothing. He knows every single piece of clothing before it goes on set, before the actor moves. He is the initiator of the entire feel. He's the initiator of everything, and will and everything goes through him before you ever see it on film. And it is it's, for me, it's the opposite of Steven Soderbergh. totally opposite It's a totally opposite process, but equally as satisfying and fulfilling. And you also everybody has to be ready to be work on the on the floor immediately in the morning, and he will do whatever he wants to do with them. And there are very, very, very specific things about Chris, when he says, I don't want it to be stylish, I don't want it to be stylized, I don't want it to be. I don't want to feel okay, now we're going into this period, right? Now we're going into that period, now we're going into, find a way to be able to merge in a way that is easy to just be wherever it needs to be in the storytelling. And once you understand that, it can go any place, I your brain kind of or my brain shifted in a way to kind of keep that always at the forefront of, you know, not you can't do it for every single scene, but you try to, for every scene, or passage of time or decade, or please have all of those kind of very specific sections. Figure out a way to be able to merge everything. Flip flop it inside and out. And that way, it'll give him what he needs in the cutting room to be able to tell the story he is then wanting to create as an end result. Unknown Speaker Yeah. Now obviously, we've only really seen like one shot from your film in the teaser trailer, but it seems like a mammoth production. And I'm just kind of curious, like how it compares to somebody like Kimmy that you did with Steven Soderbergh small cast? Oh, Unknown Speaker yeah. Well, it was huge. I mean, by comparison, Kimmy was, I think, an exercise for Steven to have actually an LED screen so that he can actually play with it every time you work with Steven, that he is using another type of device in a, for a lack of another word to experiment with, you know, or to challenge himself with. And that was one location basically, for the entire thing and make you feel as if you were, you looked across the street, and you saw people moving in and out and, and so I went in, that was his experiment. That's what he wanted to play with, and, and so on. And so we just give him the pieces to play, you know, so that he could do whatever he wants as well. You know, that story was miniscule for Ben Heimer. Grant covers 45 years. And it covers 45 years and quite a lot, you know, in the Los Alamos time and, and, and Oppenheimer's life of the beginning to end. PB Well, we can't wait for it. So we're all pumped for it over here. And I hope I hope you will join us again, jump back on the show and talk about it when you can, we'd love to know about the tailors and the process of putting those links together. And Elena, you got a hard out. We didn't even get to the big one today. We didn't even get to speed on my favorites. Unknown Speaker I need also, ah, I don't think broke a barrier, sprint speed at that time. The interesting thing about speed was that it was an action film with at that time, young talent. Okay. Keanu, I think was Bill and Ted. Maybe something else, right. So, Sandy, was in a bunch of films, but hadn't made a leap. You know, she was still she was in a couple of big films, actually, but hadn't really jumped to the top of her game yet. And so these, this film, yonder bonds, his point of view was he really wanted to create a new action and a new action film a new action hero. And if you remember, this came after the diehards and Schwarzenegger and so on and so forth. And there was a look for that. And that was a tank top a leather jacket and jeans, basically, on a man and Piano was very much into that we were very much against that. And subsequently, it was a shock to the studio at that time when Qian o came on, well, they saw it for the first time in quite casual clothes, but because they have a stereotypical image in mind, right, and they didn't know how to react, but Yan was quite secure and said, No, that's the way it's going to be. That is absolutely the way it's gonna be. We're not changing anything. He's not going in and Kiana wouldn't have done it anyway. So there was no conversation there. But what had to be accomplished was that it was kind of a considerable one change movie with many different layers, and what it had to get to how it had to get there, naturally. And and so that was what was most important about how he started out to where he had to go to. And I think that that worked quite, quite well, in our favor. I think the film was a hugely exciting film. I think the first of its kind in, in a sense, and, and Sandy was, she was a dream. And you know, actually, when it came out, people didn't necessarily know who they were really, that? Well. It really kind of they, they zoom to the top pretty quickly, and have held their place, because they were very talented actors. But I think that the I think that that the storytelling and that action and the stunts in that film, and the story itself was really pretty great. PB I love I just watched it last night. And it's pretty much there's no fat on speed. There's not like a couple of minutes, here we go, we can trim that we can trim that. I mean, it's from beginning to end. It's really much onpoint and flawless. I agree intensely. On, turn it off. And also it's got a plot that you can write on the back of a napkin. I remember my father just telling me this. I got all of my films from my older brothers when I was younger, and they would tell me they would come back from the cinemas and tell me about the films that I wasn't old enough to watch and, and this one, he goes, Oh, yeah, I'm just off the watch. This is about a bomb that's gonna blow up over 50 miles an hour. That's it. That's all you need is a one sentence pitch. Unknown Speaker Yeah, how's it kind of happened, and escape. PB And then But what they didn't tell you is like when they slide off underneath the bus, and they both escape. And then the bus career is off on the runway piles into another carrier jet that's carrying 250 people. I mean, that's tragic. And but they don't really cover that. But everyone escaped from the bus. So that's fine. And on that note, thanks so much for taking time out and joining us and dodging all those questions. We can catch Ellen over on Instagram by Ellen M. And we'll leave all the links over in the show notes or website also. But a real pleasure, real treat for us. Unknown Speaker Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure. PB And hopefully we do it all. Continued. Hopefully, hopefully. So thanks can speak to you soon as well. Bye, guys. Cheers. Bye. Bye. Okay. And you. Cool. Thank you. I think I can. Bye, bye. Oh, wow. Unknown Speaker They had their perfect murder. PB I didn't No, no, no, that was good. Tweet in there. So that's good. I felt like we got twice. That felt like you had a good tempo. I think so. Yeah. She she wanted to talk a little bit. And I was quite happy to let her run because I mean, let people tune in. Unknown Speaker You got that bridgerton thing, though, down to three minutes. And then we moved on? That was great. Yeah. PB Right. I mean, I didn't want to have I mean, I didn't really also have a lot to say about it, because I've not seen it. So it's not as if I had a whole bunch of questions. Everything else that we touched on I had seen apart from one or two so but definitely go back to the laundromat. But yeah, I mean, Unknown Speaker that was a good trim. Would have been fascinating to talk about. PB Yeah, I think maybe we spend too long on what women want. But that was Unknown Speaker your stuff was interesting. Yeah, PB we got to Oppenheimer. I like it when they say we can't speak about anything. Can you go well, tell me about the suspenders. Oh, well, let me tell you. If I put you down and said Sanders came again for that it's got to be when I'm a Dominus. I'll email her or send her the book. Hopefully if I get to meet up with her in London. I'll just say can you put me in touch with Dennis Kim and Jeffrey? These are the two white whales we need on the show. Right? Unknown Speaker You know, currently did Ocean's 11, right? PB Yes. I did like the question about oh, you got anything in the pipeline? Unknown Speaker I had to go for it. All right. Did you know the answer, unfortunately, but you never know in the future. PB Or she was a sweet. I'm so glad that was wonderful. She was great. Unknown Speaker It's great about her too. She really loves film, like, into costume design. She just loved film. So she she views it as like a holistic thing. tailoring of the closer Yeah, because like, I think you touched on this before when you're talking about the gray man with with Thomas. Like the stylists are kind of taking over and it's all like Oh in euphoria so and so was this and that and this right? It's all brands and even in bond to you know, like Ray finds is tailored like how long used to be and Vienna Tom Ford. You know, you're gonna be Tom Ford, everything, all the watches. They're Omega on everybody for some reason. PB Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Well, what? What makes less sense is how everyone in a Ryan Gosling film has to wear a tag here, because his contract also stipulates every other actor in the film has to wear a tag here. So Unknown Speaker Chris Evans like oh, here put this or Billy Bob store and he's been doing it for 40 years. Oh, here. PB Oh, good. I mean, that is that is ego. I mean, I would I would be embarrassed. I know. It's a good watch. But I'd be embarrassed to turn up to sit and say I made you wear that. Because I'm so rich and powerful that I got I got the Unknown Speaker drop off to like, Leo, his contract is over with tag. Right. So now can he just put anything? PB Oh, I guess. I mean, a strong. Yeah. Unknown Speaker Wearing you know, like a gold Rolex with an 80s tag that was at the time was like an $800. Watch. Not anything else. PB Yeah, that he chucked? Yeah, that's interesting. But yeah, he'd been. She was good. Yeah. So fucking Nick is, Nick. We're talking about where stories come from his neck and his bloody blog with Cerruti and Basic Instinct. All Oh, yeah. Yeah, like 10 articles about sorry. Yeah, no, I Unknown Speaker didn't look that one, too. Yeah. Because I was trying to find the how long she's working with Otto and Douglas in shirts and stuff like that. I saw the same thing and Basic Instinct like, oh, yeah, these are also rude suits. You know, Rudy. Unknown Speaker I think it's in the zeitgeist. Unknown Speaker Like, if you look at flusters Wikipedia page, which I did yesterday, by the way, saruni died. January of this year, which I think PB that's right. Unknown Speaker There's a lot less like, there's two separate paragraphs about how we worked on Wall Street. Like the movie Wall Street. Yeah. Well, PB I don't even know if we got to the bottom of who made the suit for Basic Instinct then after all Unknown Speaker that? No, I don't think we did. PB I'll have to ask you in a follow up. Yeah. So what did he do on base? Unknown Speaker I guess the last time she said that, like he sent them clothes, and they weren't didn't use them. Unknown Speaker But then he went everywhere and PB said, but I thought she meant that fatal attraction. I thought she said that for Fatal Attraction and Wall Street. Oh, shit. Unknown Speaker I don't remember now. Yeah. PB Well, like, if we don't if we don't remember the audience won't either, so it's good to clear it up. Even if I get a bollocking in the middle of it. I mean, I do like Unknown Speaker that we get she really fucking hates Rudy though. But yesterday never not once. PB Yesterday is a cool episode but or wherever straight out the gate with fatal attractions like it so I heard she had no no. Straight out the gate second time around a little bit of cocktail and stuff. No. I mean, Unknown Speaker just gotta go. Like the faces headstone. PB Yeah. God damn that guy. Unknown Speaker Wonderful, though, man. Like, and she does genuinely seem to want to come back and do more. She didn't have to say that four times. So. PB Oh, I mean, it can't be that bad, right? Unknown Speaker Yeah, it's it's true. Yeah, we go pretty easy. Yeah. The only thing I wish I'd gotten in there when she was talking about wanting to do bond 26 Just who does she think? She played bond? He'd worked with a few of the regulars on page Cillian Murphy. I don't know who else is in Oppenheimer. But she has worked with Cavill for one, Richard man maybe. PB One Richard Madden. Unknown Speaker I don't think he's a very good actor. PB Fucking I saw the bodyguard is BBC fingered interview and there's a lot of put the put the bomb down but the now walked in it and listen you burn down but I'm just pleased to get to the point or can we I mean part of it is writing but there's a lot of it that it knew put down put it there Unknown Speaker you can see that Scottish accent King PB Constantine Scotia is actually Alright, it was actually good for about three episodes I think and then Unknown Speaker I just wrote an article for for Nick about Wolverine and X Men, because Hugh Jackman is coming back and all that stuff. So anyway, I was reading the Liberty All right. And I was reading it like I mentioned in the front about how they wanted Russell Crowe and he was like, no me I just make gladiator fuck you. Yeah. But he recommended Jackman but they went with do gray Scott for a minute. Do gray. Really Scottish it's hard to understand it. He'd never really amounted to much is married to Claire Forlani, which I was surprised by but PB oh, she's she's Meet Joe Black. Unknown Speaker You're black Mallrats she's got that little bit in the rock. She's kind of his daughter PB in that. Oh, yeah. economy's daughter in the rock. But she's got the Smokiest eyes since Tanya Roberts, Claire Forlani. Yeah, I would say and just getting lost. Yeah, yeah, she's well do great. Scott was mission impossible to write. So that was his high for me. Well, run that bash that down. Unknown Speaker Well, what's his name? Richard. Something that that, you know, his henchmen and Mission Possible to PB South African guy? Unknown Speaker Yeah. It took me I think he's Australian. Like actually. Yeah, he's in the crown playing. What do they have an Australian Prime Minister? And he is actually Australian, but he is doing a South African intermittently Unknown Speaker in. Yeah. Oh, I PB thought he was just exclusively South African. Well, you never know who you run into. Unknown Speaker Rewatch other kind of nerdy, but there's a podcast and video series. The weekly planet Mr. Sunday movies they're based in Australia. They did they have a series of just like their second kind of bad movies called caravan of garbage. I'll send you the link they do a mission impossible to and they're like, I just thought he was Australian all the time. And then randomly he became South African 20 minutes in and PB they love mission impossible to do did Mission Impossible Unknown Speaker to John? Oh, Catherine. PB I know Timothy Everest did some bits. Yeah, he did. Unknown Speaker Yeah, he did. You're right. You didn't you had him on the show for the suits you did on one. PB One? Well, I'm actually harp I wouldn't say halfway that's that's a bit reaching. But I'm writing his biography. So that's the the 5am project at the minute, he's talking to me over zoom. And then I transcribe it, translate it and make a story out of it. But we haven't got to the we've already covered it on the podcast, but I want to get into Unknown Speaker a $5 app you can get to PB do that. But the trouble is, he will start telling a story and then go Oh, actually, I forgot before that. Just someone telling you their life stories. I mean, it's interesting, but then you got to shape it into a real story as an interesting story with dialogue. So yeah, that's that's hopefully that's well, I'm working on that's up at five no chipping away at project in between all this, but um, Dude, I gotta shoot. I gotta. Oh, yeah. Dinner, misses and all that. Great. Thanks for taking up some of the heavy lifting on that. Loved. No, it was a very questions over the YouTube Correct. You'd agree. I mean, if I did, okay. Cool. I'll catch you on the next one. And yeah, we'll speak soon. Yeah, absolutely. Talk to you soon. All right. Take care guys. Transcribed by https://otter.ai